Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Ask the Coach 5 with Nick Sellers. Thanks again, Nick. How's your week been?
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Been a good week, busy week.
Some unexpected stuff that came along this week but you know, life's like that, isn't it?
[00:00:14] Speaker A: Absolutely.
So racing towards the middle of the year, I don't know where the first six months of the year's gone, but it's also mid year promotions this time of year and I thought some of the questions I've had recently been very focused on the promotion side of things and it's worth running some of these past you, Nick. So a question I had recently is I'm performing well in my current role and feel ready for the next step. What proactive steps can I take to position myself for a promotion?
[00:00:47] Speaker B: The first thing I would say is make it known that you want to be considered for promotion. So whether you're in a small company or a large company, what doesn't work so well is spring enterprises on anybody. So for example, if you're in a larger company where jobs are posted on the notice board internally and stuff like that and you decide that you want to go pursue something, to actually go have that conversation with your boss once the thing's been posted might be like springing a surprise.
What you can do is make it known, talk to your boss. You have opportunities when you do weekly reviews, monthly reviews, one on ones, even when you're actually, you know, kind of traveling somewhere on a trip together, you know you're going to get to a destination, you've got time in the car or on the train. So I would say first things first is don't spring surprises. Start warming people to the idea that you want to be considered for promotion. The second thing I would say is find out what the rules are that you're going to be judged against or the rules of engagement for being considered for promotion. It may be that you need to have certain qualifications or certificates so you can't be considered without those. Something like that. Find out what you're actually working with. Find out too whether or not you know or look back on previous performance reviews and see whether there were any items there that could be red flags like against a promotion. So what I would say is, you know, if you are performing well, then promotion is natural. You may also find as well that, you know, it could just be that economically things are a bit quiet. So promotion then becomes maybe a little bit more difficult. But I think making it known, having the conversation but without any pressure or rancor around it, you know, you want, you want people to know that you looking for promotion and you want to kind of scrub up in the best light. And if you're being argumentative and difficult, then you're not scrubbing up in a good light.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Absolutely, I agree with that one.
An area quite often, and I've had it in my career, Nick, is you're an organization that doesn't have a clear career path framework. And I think a lot of organizations are much better these days at having that pathway through to promotion and be public about how that's gained. And if you're in an organization that doesn't have that clear career pathway, how can you advocate for professional growth and signal your readiness for promotion?
[00:03:28] Speaker B: That's a really good question. I think. I think in some ways the answer that I gave to the last question would apply to this as well and there would be no reason why you couldn't ask for some clarity. So if there isn't a clear career path available, then go talk to your line manager, talk to somebody that you trust in HR or in L and D and have the conversation around your aspirations. You want to get promoted? How can you position yourself? It may be that the business has prepared you to put you through some professional development. It may be that the company has an expectation that you're going to invest in your own future as well. Instead of. So I would say again, go find out what you can. And if that lack of clarity exists, you know, there isn't anything documented, then maybe you could actually be the one that is the catalyst to get it documented. And actually, you know, even for yourself, just create a plan.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Right.
In my mind, Nick, you can correct me on this a little is there's always a bit of an X factor when it comes to promotion. And probably that X factor is my view. And again, I'm keen to get your thoughts on this. Probably one would be your personal relationships with your seniors in the business and having positive personal relationships probably goes some way. And secondly would be ensuring you're visible and being self promoting within the business and not being a wallflower.
Would you agree? Would you agree with that, Nick? What in your view are that the X factors that maybe aren't in the employee handbook or in the promotion pathway that people should be aware of.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great point.
For those that are quieter, more shy and retiring, it can be really tough to position yourself well because you don't want to talk about yourself. You don't want to talk unnecessarily about yourself. There are some people that it just seems to come naturally to Them that, you know, they're bubbly, they're buoyant, they're always talking about the right things. And so I would say identify somebody who you, whose style you like and emulate them. You know, do read up about this. Do, do take account of how other people do things and start to mimic. You know, they say imitation is a sincerest form of flattery and actually just starting to kind of build those muscles that will have you be a bit more outspoken, you know, contributing good ideas, making positive contributions. Those are all going to position you well and take feedback as well. So if there's anybody that you trust in the business, some people will give you feedback that's not accurate, but there are good people that you work with. And what I would say is, you know, talk to the ones that you trust. Not just, don't just talk to people who you know will say nice things about you, that that's a form of deceit.
Go talk to people who you trust, who you know will give you good balanced feedback and work on the things that they point out. If they say to you things like, Andrew, you're a bit quiet in meetings, we know you've got it in your head, but you're not contributing it when it matters, then you've got something to work on.
And I would say, you know, be more visible by volunteering to take things on. You know, you can be quiet and shy and retiring and actually just do your job really well, but there's no stretch involved in that. And when you stretch, that's when people start to see you.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Good advice, Nick. Something I've witnessed been quite effective and when I think about it, probably utilize myself to some extent, is if you find a more senior person in the business who you've got that rapport with and almost becomes a bit of a mentor, whether it's your direct line manager or just a senior person in the business, they tend to also vouch for you and promote you without you having to go through that self promotion. And they can almost watch your back a little bit when it comes to these things. Would you say that's a feasible tactic or a tactic people should consider?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: I would actually say it's essential, I think, having a mentor, you know, so a mentor is somebody who's more experienced than you, better connected than you, probably older, but not necessarily older. So they've got, you know, more years under their belt and it's somebody that you can learn a lot from. They understand how your industry works, they understand how your role should be fulfilled, they understand the politics in the company, you know, they understand a lot, they know a lot, they've got a network. So in large companies, your own internal network can be the most vital asset that you've got available to you.
And I would say that when you have a mentor, they're probably going to introduce you to their network as well. So, you know, as somebody more junior, you can extend your own network by having a mentor. So I think what you said there is dead accurate and actually can be a bit of rocket fuel for somebody that's wanting to do well.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Good advice, Nick. Yeah, brilliant. Outside of exceeding expectations in your role, what other factors we've touched upon?
Interpersonal relationships and self promotion. But are there any other factors that you believe people should be developing specific skills or behaviors that will help position them for promotion?
[00:09:18] Speaker B: I think it's going to depend on the role and where you want to go. It may be that if I try and it's probably going to end up being a bad example, but for somebody who wants to get a promotion to become a sales manager, then probably the first thing you have to do is to prove yourself to be a good salesman.
So a woman, so, so really being. Being proficient at what you do and what you are going to manage is really key. But when you become a sales manager, you then take on a whole new set of responsibilities. You're not selling yourself to clients anymore, you're not selling.
Sorry, I'll have to rephrase that. That came out badly. I suppose. Sale is selling is about selling yourself, but you are not yourself selling directly to clients now. You're now managing people and because you understand how sales works, you as a manager you become a bit harder about what people in sales can do and can't do and stuff like that. So you kind of have to show that you're a good practitioner, but then actually you've got to layer on some additional skills and that doesn't come naturally to everybody. I can think of so many different examples where somebody's been a good practitioner, but when they've gone into the management of a function, it's not worked well and so they weren't ready for it and maybe never will be ready for that next step up.
Does that kind of help?
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely, Nick. I think it's a good point as well. Certainly in the professional services model, people move into managerial role very early in their career and it's not always a position people necessarily want. And I think we've discussed this in previous ask to coach episodes where, you know, the only natural Move is into management and it's maybe not where you want to go or where your skills lie. And I think that can be quite a difficult position for people where the promotion is into a position that they don't necessarily want. I suppose that's a good question. If the promotion is into a position that you don't necessarily want, how would you address that?
[00:11:36] Speaker B: I think you have to question your motives for the promotion. Are you looking simply for more money, more power, more notability? You know, what is it you're looking for? Why is the promotion the natural way for you to go? And is it natural? It may be that you're a good practitioner and you can become a super practitioner by going through more training, taking on some personal development outside of just training. There's so many different things that you can do do that will lift your value either to yourself or to the company or to both. So, so promotion is not, is not always the right choice. It could just be that you actually just make yourself more and more indispensable by adding skills just as an example and also consider a sideways move as well. Sometimes, you know, we, we go for promotion because we're kind of bored where we are. You know, we've done everything. We know how it works. Stretch yourself by learning new skills in a, in a different part of the business or in a, in a different, a different part of how finance works.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: That's, that's brilliant advice, Nick. And that's common conversation just now where maybe people are ready for that move and opportunities aren't out there.
Internal mobility, especially during quieter times in the job markets, is massive. And I do always suggest for people to go and seek out those opportunities internally. You know, even if it's a short term move, it might just open their eyes to a new avenue that they haven't already considered. Yeah, yeah, I think, think that's great advice.
So if somebody's ready for promotion and they're ready to make that next step, but they're denied that promotion when they thought they were going to get, get it, is that the right time to leave the company, do you think? And how do you weigh up your options and decide the next best steps?
[00:13:34] Speaker B: I think you use the right phrase there, weighing up options. Every option has a risk attached to it.
And I think it's the kind of decision that we do best if we allow the emotion to be removed from the decision. So when you've gone through, let's say, an interview process for a promotion and you don't succeed, find out. I mean, I Think it's, it's generally an entitlement that you get feedback as to why somebody else was chosen above you. And it may be that, you know they have qualifications that you don't have. It may be that they've got experience that you don't have. There may be a number of different reasons why the company couldn't say yes to you.
Take that as constructive feedback because you can gain qualifications, you can gain experience. Might just take a bit longer.
So I wouldn't say it's time to leave the company, but at that point, once you know why you didn't get the promotion, you'll understand better whether or not the opportunity will come around again.
And so then, then you can start to take stock if you, if you feel urgent. You know, sometimes when we're turned down for something, we take it personally. It wasn't intended personally, but it affects us personally. I know this has been a topic that we've kind of covered in previous weeks as well, but remove yourself from that kind of taking it personally thing and actually say, was the company justified in the decision that they took? Be objective. Don't just think, because this is about me, they were clearly wrong.
Do be prepared to go back and have more conversations about the decision that's been taken. Again, if it's been taken, you can't change it, but you might be able to shift somebody's perspective on things a little bit, but you won't do it. If you're having an argument with them, you'll do it through a conversation, but then to go forward from there. If leaving the company is an option you want to consider, I would say stay in the job, don't quit. Go out and have a look what's in the market. Go out and have a look how the qualifications and experience you've already got would work in another situation. You know, so you're qualified, you've got certificates, you've got experience. Can you apply that in an area that might take you into something more interesting?
So I don't think being turned down for promotion is the trigger, has to be the trigger for quitting your job. But it could be a catalyst, something that actually makes you start looking elsewhere. But I would say do the research first.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: Absolutely agree. Good advice. Nick, final question. Just when you're talking discussing risk there. I don't think there's an easy answer to this, but I'm keen just to get some thoughts from you, Nick, is what I tend to see earlier in people's career, when they recently qualified or graduated, they probably have more risk appetite. And then typically as you get a bit older, you get more financial responsibility and you probably shy away from risk a little bit. I'd say certainly maybe towards the mid part of your career.
Is that something you see in people's careers? And how do you. And what I tend to see is people overweight, overvalue the risk and they see everything as being a huge risk. Whereas probably the way they should be seen it is, it's a huge opportunity. And I think naturally as humans we tend to go on the side of risk. But I suppose what I want to ask you, Nick, is do you see that typically throughout people's careers, how do people assess this risk? And how would you work with someone at those kind of crossroads in their career to assess that risk?
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Okay, so to a degree, some of this is personality based. Some people are more inclined to take risks than others.
It could be that some professions are more or less risk inclined. So finance professionals, I would say might well be less risk inclined than somebody who's in the technology industry, for example. But you're right, as people progress through their career, the benefits that they accrue of being dedicated in the work that they do start to bring responsibilities. And there we might become less risk accepting or more risk averse than we might have been when we were younger, earlier in our career. Because very often we get into a career not because we've got our focus on something, but because we drift into it and then we find out it's a good place to be and the career grows.
I think it's a good thing at every stage of our career to take stock of am I really enjoying what I do and if I'm not, would I be prepared to do this for the rest of my life on the basis that it gives me a lifestyle or it gives me access to things that I value immensely?
And if the answers to these questions kind of come out like, no, I'm not particularly happy at work and no, I'm not really getting benefits that I really appreciate, and no, I'm not able to spend time doing the things I really value, it could be that you're actually talking yourself into considering a career change.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: It's a very good point. Interesting. No, thanks for your take on that, Nick.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Where I'm going with that is I think at every stage, you know, it's good for us to reflect on things and to try and take something of a balanced view.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Loads of great insight and advice there, Nick. Really appreciate it. Thanks again. And hopefully you'll join me again for the next one.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. Andrew. Always love these conversations and keep the questions coming.
Hopefully your viewers are getting something of value from them.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Sure they are. Nick. Thanks again for the insight.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Thanks, Andrew.
