Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Ask the coach 6 thanks again for taking the time. Nick, how you doing?
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Very well, thank you, Andrew. Very well. Been a mixed week this week. Very good news. A couple of frustrations along the way, but that's life really, isn't it?
[00:00:15] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. So the topic this week, Nick, and it's a conversation I've had a number of times, is social media and more specifically LinkedIn.
So one of the things I advocate for in this day and age especially is for professionals who are starting their job search to update their profile and be visible on LinkedIn. There's a huge audience out there of peers, clients and other professionals and I think you're probably missing the trick. On the FAP side, Nick, I actually find it quite social media, quite uncomfortable. I don't particularly enjoy it and I do see it as a bit of a necessary evil.
And irony's not lost to me given that this is going to be posted on LinkedIn.
So I do push past the hesitancy to post on LinkedIn partly because it's brought me a lot of opportunities and allows us to deliver better services to professionals we work with. I know you've got some strong views on this and like, and you've got a strong LinkedIn profile, but what do you think some of the reasons are that professionals hesitate to post on LinkedIn and engage with social media?
[00:01:27] Speaker B: I think there's a few reasons that I would observe. One is fear putting a foot wrong. I've heard lots of people say, I don't want to post anything in case it comes back and bites me.
It's an unfamiliar field that you play in. So it could be that because of lack of practice we're a bit reluctant to actually go and participate. We might dip our toe, but we don't see ourselves as being regular practitioners, so to speak. So I think there's that. And then, and then it's like, what do you talk about?
So, so I think, Yeah, I think LinkedIn, but any social network, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, anywhere, it's about using it for what it can be useful for rather than actually seeing it as being something which is going to be difficult to do and in some way an enemy.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. I think your point on exactly what do you post is a very good point. And I've done some training in the past and always been recommended to post, you know, the conversation similar to weirdo and the conversations I'm having on a day to day basis, you know, with professionals, because that is what will bring the most value.
And so I do suggest to professionals to post, you know, some of the challenges that they're having or some of the trends they're seeing in their day to day professional life. Obviously they can make that confidential, but I always feel that that's a good topic to be posting about. Is there other topics you could suggest?
[00:03:04] Speaker B: I think you've kind of nailed it there. I think every one of us has got experience of stuff to do with work, stuff to do with life. We've all of us got opinions about things. Now, if you're in a job search situation, having strong opinions that you express in public about, I'm going to say weird topics might not actually look very good. So I think you've kind of got to exercise some self control over what you post. But you know, LinkedIn is a professional network, so talk about professional things.
If there's a new regulation that's affecting your business or your industry or your role, then why not post an opinion about it and say why you think it's bad or why you think it's good?
Other people do post things. Why not join in the conversation by adding comments to their posts so you don't always have to kind of come up with an unusual angle. You can actually just kind of come out with things which are clear. And very often on LinkedIn, people quite like to know something about the you that sits behind that Persona that goes on LinkedIn. So, you know, if you've had an interesting customer service experience or something like that, it's the sort of thing you can say, you know, we stood in the checkout line for hours today and then when I got there they closed the checkout or something like that, you know, and people will sympathize and comment and stuff. So it doesn't always have to be purely on a professional basis.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: It's interesting you say that, Nick. I think a lot of the personal brand gurus, they do recommend, as you suggested, bringing in some personal basis to the posts.
I feel quite uncomfortable doing it, but I do know it's effective because you see people who post a lot of personal things on LinkedIn and you do know who they are and they become recognizable.
How do you feel when you see posts where to give an off the cuff example, someone's eating a baguette saying five minutes for lunch, flat out busy today and it's a selfie of them eating a baguette.
Is that something you would advocate for or do you think that's too informal?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: No, no, I think that's fine. But don't make it that you post that kind of thing every day or every week. So do post something. If it has been an unusually busy day and you have only had five minutes to rush out and grab a sandwich and there's a celebr selfie there of you eating it, why not, you know, write a couple of sentences, post it, have a smile on your face while you're biting into the sandwich or something like that. I think people appreciate that that's the real you, that's the reality of your work life, let's say. But it kind of gets, it can get a bit tedious when people are posting pictures of their sandwiches, their salads or everything every day.
So get the balance right, I would say.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think I've told you this before, Nick. I'm going to use an example of a couple of accountants actually now have got pretty strong personal brands on LinkedIn and there's a few that I'm connected with and they do post a lot of selfies. And I'm going to say this controversially, potentially, is that from their LinkedIn content I got the wrong impression of them. And actually, um, one day I listened to an interview that they done on a podcast actually, and they came across like very articulate, very smart, very switched on and it completely changed their, my opinion of them and their LinkedIn content. I felt I devalued them as a professional, although I knew exactly who they were through the content. I've never spoke to this person, but it gave me a negative impression of them. Now, maybe I'm old fashioned and stuffy, he'd seen that. But my impression completely changed when I heard them talking and how articulate and smart they were.
So I do think it can be a fine line between giving that personal side across. But at the same time, at the end of the day, you're a professional and you want to be seen like that and not devalue yourself. Have you got any thoughts on that?
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think LinkedIn is a professional network. So if the majority of what you post is selfies, eating a sandwich and stuff like that, or off the cuff comments about how somebody across the other side of the room looked or something, then it's gonna, it's gonna give that impression.
I would say 80, 20 is probably a good rule of thumb. 80% of your posts should probably relate to who you are professionally. So you know, the job that you do, the profession that you're in, role that you occupy, all of that kind of stuff, stuff. But maybe, maybe one in five, the 20% can actually be about you. Know, the sandwich, the rush of life, you know, a train being canceled at the last second when you're on your way to a meeting. That kind of thing kind of gives a flavor of you. Maybe these guys that you're talking about, maybe they've got that ratio switched around so that it was maybe more like, you know, 80% personal, 60% personal, and the rest of it was. Was business. And the. Clearly, the podcast, the interview that you mentioned challenged what you had, what you. What you had seen.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm open, Nick, that maybe my views that need changing. And then. And, you know, I was maybe jumping to conclusions in the wrong way. So how important do you think it is for professionals to have your personal brand on social media and a social media profile? To some extent.
Do you think it's key in this day and age to have that?
[00:09:02] Speaker B: I think it is because more than ever in the past, you are in the public gaze.
Think 40 years ago when there was no social media.
And so if you are looking for a new role, then they had the cv, what you said about yourself, there would be references to kind of validate who you were and all that kind of thing. And so employers had that as an opportunity to evaluate you and the interview, of course, they would talk to you one to one. But now social media exists and actually it's a powerful platform for people to use usefully or to avoid. And actually, in a way, it detracts from who you are as a person. Now I do go back to getting the balance right. I think there are some people that just live in social media and it will. It will absorb you if you're not careful. It will be more than a useful tool. It'll become a distraction from what you do. You'll get drawn into political arguments, you'll get drawn into back and forth about things. Use social media for what it's good for, which is presenting you in a good light as a real person who's got authentic views and practice the art as well. Because even though we make mistakes, social media, unless you're a politician, social media kind of does forget quite quickly what it was you said in a tweet.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a good point you pick up on. You can become very absorbed in social media quite easily.
I'm sad to say that I accidentally intentionally downloaded TikTok one day. And the algorithms and the way that they present information to you is. It's incredible how they can keep you engaged in the app. And Twitter is quite similar, but, you know, they can Just keep showing you content that they know you want to see and essentially that keep you engaged in their application. And I agree, I think it could be very easy to become absorbed in social media and important to be conscious of that.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: It's useful for us to remember something that I learned about 20 years ago. If the product is free, the chances are you are the product, your information. So the reason why you get free access to LinkedIn, to Facebook, to X as it's now called, used to be Twitter, Instagram and so forth, is because they know what you're looking at and they try to sell you more of that. So it's, it's about advertising, largely. I know that it's not exclusively advertising, but it's your information that's being sold.
They make money from selling advertising space, simply put. So the product is free, you have free access to the platform unless you subscribe to a premium account with LinkedIn and they're presenting ads to you the whole time, or they're presenting similar content because they want to keep you there as long as possible, because every time you see an ad they get a few pence.
So I think exercising self control, being disciplined about how much time you spend there, what kind of stuff you view, what kind of stuff you comment on, what kind of stuff you post will actually save you from yourself.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Yeah, and another, I think another common issue with social media, and I think we'd all be lying to ourselves if we said that we hadn't felt at some point, is the comparison trap. And you know, you can go on social media, you see how well everybody else is doing, you might not be having a great day, you might have challenges in your work life, your personal life, and you go on social media and all you see is typically the good. So how can you utilize social media without falling into that comparison trap?
[00:13:02] Speaker B: You're, you're absolutely right. A lot of is very heavily curated. It's been, you know, it's been polished and a veneer has been put on things before it's posted. So take everything with a pinch, I'm going to say a pinch of salt, which sounds a bit cynical, but be careful what you're viewing because it's a bit like that program on tv, X Factor or Britain's Got Talent. And what you see is you see somebody on stage for two or three minutes and they do this great act and they say it would mean the world to them if they won. And that's, that's great. What you don't see is you don't see the hours and hours of preparation that goes in for that two or three minutes of fame. And it's the same with, with social media. Very often that the polished stuff that you see, the frequent posts that some people put out there, there's been hours and hours of preparation has gone into it. So don't compare yourself to them in that respect, unless that's where you want to be.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. No, I agree. One of the main reasons I think social media is important for professionals these days. As a recruiter, you spend, rightly or wrongly, a large proportion of your day on social media. And that's where I think typically LinkedIn will be the first port of call now for a lot of recruiters to go and source professionals for the jobs that they're working alongside their own professional network. So I think by not having a professional presence on LinkedIn, you will miss out on opportunities, unfortunately, it's just the way it is these days. But if somebody's really dead set against having that professional profile on LinkedIn, is there any alternatives you could suggest, Nick, that, you know, could have the same effectiveness?
[00:14:49] Speaker B: One of the things that I think people are kind of fearful of is, is the fact that they've got to go set it up and maintain it themselves.
So if you're, if you're against, if you're not against the principle of having a social media account, say on LinkedIn, then maybe get some professional help, get somebody to actually write your profile content.
There are people, companies that for a few pounds every month will actually post content for you.
That's one option that you've got. Even at the very minimum, if you have a good profile, it means that for somebody like you who's a recruiter, there is a place on the Internet where information can be found about a candidate, or you can go and find candidates that look as though they've got the right profile, the activity side of things, you know, the kind of, the regular posting that just kind of augments what the profile is saying. But for somebody that's really dead set against social media, I would say, well, don't do anything that you really feel strongly against because it's not going to come across as being real or authentic. But what I think you do need to do, and again, I'm talking in a, in a kind of a recruitment sense, because that's probably where it's going to come to light most, if you're really dead set against it, have a very good explanation available for the opportunity, when the opportunity arises to talk to somebody, because it's Unusual. You're in a very small percentage of people if you don't have an account on LinkedIn.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: I agree. I think officials need to remember as well two things. I think recruiters will look for the profile. But, you know, I know for a fact hiring managers also, before an interview, will often do a social media search of that person and Maybe check their LinkedIn profile just to check it's consistent with their CV, to see if there's any additional information that they can get from the LinkedIn profile. They might also check their other social media. And I think it's very important for professionals to be wary of the fact that if they're posting on other social media channels, content that they wouldn't want employers or potential employers to see, don't do it, get it deleted. Because I've known of numerous instances over the years where professionals haven't been offered jobs or been taken out of the process because of comments they've made on Twitter or posts they've put on Facebook. So I do think it's something people need to be mindful of.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think it's like anything, Andrew, if.
If your reputation is important in the role that you fulfill in the neighborhood that you live in, then don't do anything that's going to damage your reputation. If you don't care about what people think about you, then. Then, you know, live life the way you want to live it. But don't be surprised if people start making choices based on what they see of you.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's a fine line. Because at the same time, it's good to have opinions, but it's a fine line. I mean, I think somebody always said, you know, don't talk about politics or religion. And I probably would say that's a good rule to some extent on social media because it can be very divisive.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: At the same time, people do gain, you know, very strong social media followings by talking about controversial topics. But I would say for. For most professionals, and certainly the way I would look at it, is to steer clear of a lot of those topics because they're very divisive. And, you know, you might isolate people that you wanted to engage with.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah. But you're right about having. Having opinions is important. If we are too bland, then we're uninteresting. So. So for us to. To be able to. And that's. That's something that I think maybe people can learn how to articulate themselves. Well, you know, verbally. You know, some people struggle to articulate things. Verbally very well. Maybe it's born out of a lack of practice. Maybe some help would. Would help them along. And, you know, there's lots of people out there who are presentation coaches and so forth, so that might be an option. But then also some people struggle to articulate themselves in writing as well. You know, what they write down just doesn't read well to other people and it comes across all wrong. Well, again, you know, help is available. Practice is always going to help. So, you know, sometimes I think we shy away from things because we don't think we're ever going to get it right, but we don't really give ourselves a chance. You know, somebody going to the gym isn't going to think that they're going to lift a thousand kilos on their first visit. I think we have to practice and see what we can build up to.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I'm going to ask you a tricky one, Nick, just to finish off. So I know people are in some areas rejecting technology to an extent. I think there's a strong movement now where people are getting rid of their smartphones and they're going back to their old Nokia.
Yeah, 3000, 310 with snake on it. Because just recognizing now that the smartphone owns them and it's. Yeah, they're just constantly engaged with it and they're missing out in life. I do wonder, do you think there'll come a point where there'll start to be a rejection of social media in the same way where people maybe start to step away from it and look for alternatives? And do you think potentially that's happening already?
[00:20:36] Speaker B: I think there are people that have already switched off social media. I have friends who are on Facebook and interested in politics and would get into real slanging matches over political views and then realized what was happening to them and actually just decided to suspend their account for a while. In fact, in some cases never to go back. So I think some people are already doing that. Many people don't participate on LinkedIn, they just observe. How many times have you been in a conversation with somebody who says, oh, you know, Nick, you're really active on LinkedIn at the moment. And I'm thinking I've never seen them like anything or comment on anything. So, you know, how do I know that they're there? Well, they don't show themselves and they're not participating in the sense of getting involved, but they observe. So, you know, I think, I think there are some people that have already got the discipline of taking it to the level that they want to and there are some who, I don't know, maybe they've got addictive personalities who just can't help but just kind of fall in the deep end and get completely carried away.
But to answer your question, I think technology is here to stay. I think technology is a great enabler, but I think again, we have to exercise some self control over how we use it and how much we allow it to dominate.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: Brian, Final, final question. Nick and I know we don't talk about politics. I'm going to ask you a political question. Final question. We've got two big elections coming up this year, the UK and the US election. So who's going to be by the end of the year, who's going to be the UK Prime Minister? Who's going to be the US Prime Minister? Oh, yes, President. Sorry.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Okay. So I, I will tell you that I'm not a particularly political person.
I think it's a tough call. I've got a suspicion that in America Donald Trump may well get reelected.
I don't say that because I like him or appreciate his politics or anything like that. I'm just kind of observing and I think it's a possibility in this country. I suspect that we'll have a Labor government.
So, you know, that would mean. Kia Starmer. I suppose again, it's not because I'm, I've got an affiliation with, with the Labour Party or anything, but just as an observer looking at the way things are going, it, I would say that that's, that's likely to be where things land. But then, you know, politics, it can throw up some real surprises and I may well be wrong on both camps. What about you, Andrew? Can I turn this around and ask you a question?
[00:23:22] Speaker A: What do you think?
I'm not particularly political either, Nick. As long as politicians leave me alone, I'm not too bothered about them. But yeah, I would agree with you. I think we'll have Keir Starmer and Donald Trump by the end of the year. And yeah, I don't know how much impact I'll have on.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: We'll know about the, we'll know about the UK one before the middle of July and we'll know about the American one before the end of. Is it November?
[00:23:52] Speaker A: So, yeah. Interesting times. Yeah, Brilliant. Thanks again, Nick. I really appreciate your time. Has always been great to get your perspective and insight and I look forward to catching up with you again soon.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: It's a pleasure, Andrew. Thanks very much for inviting me.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Thanks, Nick.
